Natural England

a. In response to CLA's query on the minimum size of access land to be mapped, Geodata explained that the minimum area for search in the test area datasets was 2has, but that the final decision would depend on a number of factors, like the scale of the published maps, and the precise method chosen for mapping.

b. The Local Government Association pointed out that small areas are very important to local people and are often the most disputed.

c. Geodata suggested that policy would dictate representation. But that the capacity to map very small patches of land was constrained by either the availability of data, or the resolution of the final product.

d. The Ramblers Association's advised strongly against any proposals to alter the established and recorded boundaries of common land. Geodata said there was no intention of altering these boundaries; the objective was to record the legal boundaries electronically. 

e. The RSPB asked whether the consultation on first draft maps would be on a digital or paper basis.

f. Geodata advised that it seemed likely that the consultation should be based on paper maps, even if the official record was the underlying data set.

g. The Moorland Association suggested that hard lines and landscape features were the most effective ways of delineating access, but asked Geodata's views on the scope for using graduated boundaries.

h. Geodata agreed that soft lines were representationally useful where no hard boundary existed, but that they were less useful legally. Clarity about rights and responsibilities would be aided by clearly defined boundaries.

a. The Ramblers Association welcomed the paper and stressed the need for Local Forums to be more than 'talking shops'. They would need strong direction and terms of reference. The terms of reference should not provide for local forums to be involved in resolving contested rights of way cases. The research brief should reflect the Minister's stated intention of "more and better access".

b. The Local Government Association also welcomed the papers. They were however a little concerned at the proposal that local forums should "normally" serve an area coincident with one or a number of highway authority areas. It was suggested that some highway authorities served a very large area and Local Forums might sometimes make more sense if based on smaller areas.

c. The Cyclists Touring Club suggested that there may be occasions when it could be appropriate to look at rights of way alongside transport planning, particularly where there was potential to extend the rights of way network.

d. The Chair pointed out that the guidelines must be effective but not prescriptive. They should ensure some degree of flexibility to allow for several possible approaches, and flexibility in the size of the forums.

e. There was general agreement that in developing guidance on local forums the Agency should draw on the experience of existing groups and consult with a range of interests and organisations.

f. Dr Bird had noted that the forums would be chaired and serviced by local authorities. He questioned whether they should be accountable to a higher body. Bob Roberts said that their planned role is to advise the Countryside Agency and the local authorities. The Local Government Association said that it should not be assumed that local authorities would always chair these forums.

g. The Local Government Association said the issue of long term funding would need to be resolved. This underlined the need for flexibility in the setting up of local forums. In preparing guidance the Agency must take account of recent changes in local government, existing consultative mechanisms and the potential for regional assemblies.

h. IN response to the British Horse Society's concern that the paper contained no reference to the composition or balance of local forums, the Chair said that the Countryside Agency would include advice in the guidelines.

i. The Moorland Association suggested that the research study should include the likely costs to local authorities. Bob Roberts confirmed that the Agency would invite advice from the consultants on this.

a. The Moorland Association supported the general principles set out in paragraph 3.

b. The Ramblers Association had always taken the view that there needs to be management of access, and agreed with the tenor of the general principles that any restrictions at any time should be reasonable. He drew attention to the draft "Right to Roam" Bills drafted by the Ramblers Association, as they contained useful clauses covering restrictions on access.

c. In response to a query from the British Mountaineering Council, Bob Roberts explained that the Countryside Agency, the Countryside Council for Wales and the National Parks Authority would be the decision-making authorities on closures and restrictions. It had yet to be decided how appeals might be handled.

a. The Moorland Association referred to the closure provisions and pointed out that it would be illogical if a large estate had the same right of closure (28 days) as that of a much smaller estate. The intention in the Government's Framework for Action was surely to allow closure of any parcel of land for the 28 days; thus a large estate should be permitted to close defined areas within its boundaries at different times, but none (individually) for more than 28 days (without further authority). This point required clarification with Government.

b. The Ramblers Association agreed that closures and other constraints should apply to discrete areas of need within access areas, so long as this was not allowed to be used to systematically frustrate access to a large area. 

c. The CPRE suggested that the reasons for closures need to be made clear. However, the CLA pointed out that public knowledge of the purposes of closure might aid those intent on disrupting legitimate activities such as shooting.

d. The Moorland Association said that the most likely period during which landowners would seek restrictions or closures for management reasons would be during the prime period for harvesting of grouse (12th August to end of October)

e. The British Mountaineering Council pointed out that the special provision for constraints identified in the paper dealt with different kinds of closures; long term and short term. Signs should make clear when the closures have ended.

f. The British Mountaineering Council believed that 'safety' is a management issue and should not be enshrined in legislation. The environment is not a universally 'safe' place and people must take responsibility for themselves.

g. The RSPB supported responsibility resting with the Agencies to approve closures or restrictions to protect nature conservation. It would be necessary to identify the appropriate regime for each site. In most cases access would be able to be accommodated. There may, however, be some circumstances where the wildlife interest would require permanent closure and others where it may be necessary to take rapid action. The system required some flexibility to deal with such cases.

h. English Nature confirmed that it would play a fundamental role in advising the Countryside Agency on this process.

i. The Local Government Association stressed the importance of informing the public on closures. It would be very helpful if, as well as publishing notice of closures information about nearby sites that were available, was provided at the same time.

a. The British Horse Society suggested that the phrase "ensuring public safety" be replaced by "taking account of public safety".

b. The Trade Unions supported the original wording. He pointed out that families will expect to access the countryside in safety, and there must be some responsibility for ensuring this. 

c. The British Mountaineering Council suggested that occupier liability should be modified so that owner occupiers carry a minimum of liability for visitors. This received the unanimous support of the Forum.

d. In response to C, The Moorland Association invited the Chair to recommend to Government, on behalf of the National Countryside Access Forum, that the means should be sought to reduce to a minimum any occupiers' liability consequent upon the provision of open access. 

e. The Ramblers Association were concerned about the Forum becoming involved in the detail of liability legislation. He pointed out that any change in the law could have effect outside access areas. The Forum's proposals should reflect the 1949 Act's concept of excepted land. He also pointed out that a complaints procedure already exists in the Yorkshire Dales National Park, and that we should not allow a proliferation of warning signs.

f. Sophia Lambert advised members that some of the detail will be in secondary legislation. She hoped that the Forum would help the Countryside Agency to prepare drafts of documents like Codes of Practice for users and owners.

g. The Local Government Association suggested that the 'least restrictive option' would often be limitation of use to linear routes, but whatever the rules were, they must be well known and closures well advertised, or there would be problems.

h. The CLA said that there should be linear access in less safe areas.

i. The RSPB was concerned at the suggestion that permanent closures for exceptional circumstances such as nature conservation should be reviewed 3 yearly. He said that this was too short a period, and would confuse communication through maps. Permanent closures were robust and should be mapped. This view was supported by the National Trust.

j. Bob Roberts explained that many of these restrictions will be identified during the mapping consultation process. Other closures and restrictions would need to be accommodated later.

ANNEX 1

k. The Moorland Association said that the Annex needed more work, including advice on restrictions.

l. The RSPB suggested that the Annex should include an extra column on how management mechanisms might be mapped.

m. Graham Bathe said that English Nature generally endorsed the paper. Closures for wildlife protection would be needed on only a very small area of land, but it would be important that it was available as an option for these few areas. The type of restriction should be based on sustainability.

n. In advocating the need for seasonal closures or restrictions in the nesting and fledging seasons, The Moorland Association pointed out that a precautionary approach during the breeding season was essential to protect the vulnerability and economy of the uplands. Once the extent of access and likely damage was known, consideration might then be given to relaxing restrictions. To do otherwise could result in irreparable damage.

a. Dr Bird suggested there should be an in built audit process for monitoring and learning from the experience of the early years - including a good record of the nature of any conflict or complaint.

b. The Local Government Association said that more research into the need for closures was justified, including testing the validity of reasons for closures.

c. This suggestion was supported by the RSPB.

d. The National Trust and the British Mountaineering Council stressed the importance of tailoring guidance to local conditions to ensure the effectiveness of the operation of closure and restriction procedures. The Countryside Agency and the National Park Authorities should make full use of local knowledge of the local situation.

e. The Local Government Association expressed concern about the onus of responsibility. He said that the majority of day visitors are likely to be spur of the moment walkers and would be unlikely to anticipate local closures. It could result in a real source of conflict when people out for the day meet with a closure. For this reason he supported access points wherever possible accompanied by information on closures and alternatives.

f. The Trade Unions supported this view and stressed the importance of signage for people with disabilities.

g. Members supported the CLA's suggestion that signs should carry the endorsement of the local authority as well as the owner. They also agreed that a plethora of signage must be avoided. 

h. Dr Bird suggested that closure signs could also have an educational function by illustrating the reasons for closure, ie nesting birds.

i. The British Mountaineering Council proposed that education on access was an issue which needed to be looked into more closely. 

j. The CPRE supported the list at Annex 2 and suggested that there was a strong role for local forums in advising on appropriate information in particular locations and in monitoring.

k. The Moorland Association stated that the proper notification to users of their responsibilities, and effective notification of restrictions, closures and dangers, presented a formidable challenge. Access points with suitable notices, possibly colour coded to delineate areas needing special care, would be essential. If, as advocated by the Moorland Association, linear access was imposed during the nesting and fledging season, clear route signposting would also be needed. 

a. The CLA pointed out that there was no mention of Ranger Services. These should be included. 

b. The Moorland Association endorsed this, pointing out that a good ranger could lessen the need for lots of notices. He also suggested that shepherds and gamekeepers might also have an enforcing role where appropriate. 

c. The Cyclists Touring Club pointed to the problems that local authorities would face in funding additional Ranger presence.

d. The National Trust drew attention to the importance of clarifying the relationship and responsibilities between the 3 parties involved, owner occupier/user/local authority.

e. Bob Roberts said that the codes of practice would need to make this clear.

f. The British Mountaineering Council stressed that enforcement must have transparent reasons.

a. closure and restriction arrangements which command respect and involve the local community are more likely to be successful;

b. there could be constructive roles for landowners, tenants and others with local knowledge, like gamekeepers, as well as local authorities;

c. there were some contradictory views: for instance, between taking a precautionary approach or seeing access as an opportunity to learn more about nature conservation and the boundaries of tolerability.

d. we need a straightforward system of disseminating information on closures and alternatives;

e. we need to improve our knowledge base, and be willing to revise our approach over time, on the basis of well recorded and understood experience.